very literary

I have probably made my readers die of boredom with the following post to my Amazon plog... so you insomniacs out there can read it too.

It feels like I have been waiting FOREVER for The Lion Hunter to be a real book. But Amazon keeps on saying it will be released on 14 June, so it must be true!

In an e-mail conversation with a friend, answering a few questions about the development of plot and character in my books, I suddenly realized that a large part of the creative process is purely structural. Call me flaky, but I hadn’t been aware of this.

The Lion Hunter and The Empty Kingdom became two books because my editor felt that the original manuscript, The Mark of Solomon, moved too quickly and needed to be fleshed out. It was already a longish YA manuscript at that point (not by today's 500 page standards by any means, but certainly in comparison with my other books), and we both felt that the piece would be improved by splitting it into two parts.

It was very difficult working out the right point to split the manuscript. It had to be done so that the narrative drive of the first book would push the reader into the next, but each book had to maintain its own internal integrity and closure. The idea is for the two hardbacks to be published as a single volume in paperback, so the beginning of The Empty Kingdom has to include background information that lets it stand on its own. But this information has to follow on from The Lion Hunter without being too repetitive when they’re printed as a single piece…. NOTHING has EVER been harder for me to write than the first chapter of The Empty Kingdom.

There is a certain overarching Plot Twist in the cycle that I've had to Leave Alone for years and years, because it would be too distracting to my fictional characters to know about it. It would demand attention, and they wouldn’t be able to get on with their own lives and their own stories. (Anyone who has read my short story “Fire,” occasionally available here, may know what I’m talking about.) I've written four books, meaning to deal with it at the end of each, and eventually realizing that it can't be mentioned without destroying the unique structure of that individual book. I'm working on it now, finally. In its own book.

Throughout every novel I’ve written, it turns out that it’s actually structure that governs the plot. And here’s me all along thinking it was character.

Normal programming will now resume. The kitten brought in another mouse today... that's three (two in the last two days). This is my reaction every time she does it:

EEEEEEEEEAAAALLLLLLCCCCCHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know why she hasn't caught on that I'm unappreciative.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

sdn.livejournal.com

actually, you know, we can edit the beginning of the empty kingdom for the paperback.

maybe i shouldn't have mentioned this.

From:

ewein2412

in fact I'm rather proud of having risen to the challenge.

From:

sovay

Throughout every novel I’ve written, it turns out that it’s actually structure that governs the plot. And here’s me all along thinking it was character.

Well, now I'm curious.

From:

ewein2412

you know, in its original manifestation, at the end of The Winter Prince everybody killed each other (like in Hamlet) in a carefully orchestrated scene for which I actually constructed a FLIP BOOK showing how it worked--and I decided finally that I wanted a happy ending (-ish), so I had to cut the plot off literally seconds before it all fell apart. And that's why it ends where and how it does.

I am so comfortable and familiar with the current scenario that I sometimes forget this obsolete plotline, which I lived with all through high school and for years after--the never-used dramatic brotherly/fatherly death scene being one of the first fragments of this story that my imagination cooked up for me.

From:

marguerlucy.livejournal.com

i'm glad you went with the happier ending. it makes WP significant amongst the arthurian stories - plus you got your tragedy bug out of the way right at the top of coalition/lions LOL. And though I understand the need for it, I'm definitely sad that we didn't get to see a little more of Lleu, cause even though the reader is w/medraut at the top of Winter Prince, Lleu has always been an interesting character and I grew to like him a lot.

ps. - no worries about the lack of priamos plot. I just hoped he'd be back for a visit or two! :) your characters are so universally awesome, it saddens me to lose ANY of them!

From:

ewein2412

fer godsake go read "Fire"!!!!! You may recall that Goewin's information about Lleu's death is somewhat secondhand.

From:

marguerlucy.livejournal.com

is "fire" another short story?

Is there a complete listing of books on your webpage that have your WinterPrince related short stories?

Also - which publisher did the edition that your LJ icon is representing here? it's my favorite cover, and I want to track that one down. :)

From:

ewein2412

The Lleu icon is from the original Atheneum hardback edition of The Winter Prince. It's my favorite cover, too. Alibris seems to have some cheap copies available (don't be suckered into paying more than $25 unless you know it's been dipped in gold or something).

There are only two Winter Prince related short stories--"Fire" and "No Human Hands to Touch" in "Sirens and Other Daemon Lovers." The latter contains, shall we say, adult content, so I don't have links to it from my web site, which is meant to be teen-friendly. If you order "Fire" make sure you get Volume 9 (or IX), published 1993... amazon seems to be pretty vague about the volume numbers. There are a lot of cheap used copies floating around.

From:

marguerlucy.livejournal.com

weeeee orders have been placed! i can't wait to see my list of recommendations after ordering "daemon lovers" LOL

From:

ewein2412

ahahahahaha

the contributors are actually a pretty highbrow bunch of writers!

From:

marguerlucy.livejournal.com

the only other one I've read is Joyce Carol Oates - I've read several of her plays which are WACK-A-DOO! but generally good LOL. I've heard of a couple others, but never ventured into their territory.

From: (Anonymous)

Neil Gaiman is awesome, although at a guess whatever short story of his in there isn't the best introduction to his amazingness.

I was vastly amused by Amazon saying that Jan Yolen (sic) had a short story in there. I may have never really read much of Ms. Yolen, but I do know that her first name is Jane. You would think Amazon would as well.

--Tori

From:

tiboribi.livejournal.com

This is me, now. I found my ancient unused livejournal account.

--Tori

From:

ewein2412

excellent!

From:

queenbookwench.livejournal.com

eeee! There is Lleu-related storyness that I did not know about! I'll have to seek this out at some point.

From:

ewein2412

"Fire" is the one you want. The other is Medraut/Morgause.

From:

queenbookwench.livejournal.com

Not that I have any problem reading Medraut/Morgause either. I mean, you can feel it echoing through the whole of _The Winter Prince_. Even when I was a teen I noticed it--reminded me a bit of Deerskin by McKinley in a way, which I read for the first time around that ssme time.

From:

ewein2412

well, if you're into re-reading things, I suggest reading the Medraut/Morgause short story and then launching straight into The Winter Prince. It is a freaky experience because you kind of realize for the first time just how raw he must be. (I wrote the short story long after the novel, so it came as a surprise to me, too, the first time I read them back to back.)

From:

j-cheney.livejournal.com

Must think about getting that WOTF...

I have a story out that ties to a novel I have written, but in the short story format, you have to leave out so much that would just be distracting to the reader. Therefore, the illustrator depicted my Indo-Persian main character as....pretty English looking.

Now, this is not the illustrator's fault. The POV character is blind, and doesn't describe the color of much of anything. In the short story format, I couldn't find a relevant way to squeeze in that information. Oh, well.

I think it's sort of the same thing. You just can't find a good way to get it in.

I must ask if the plot twist has anything to do with Priamus??

From:

ewein2412

The POV character is blind, and doesn't describe the color of much of anything. In the short story format, I couldn't find a relevant way to squeeze in that information

I know what you mean. In The Sunbird Telemakos spends about 2 months blindfolded. I found it both convenient and frustrating trying to describe things--convenient because I didn't actually have to know what anything looked like or what anyone was wearing in a very alien and distant landscape; frustrating, or challenging anyway (as you must know) in that you just had to think about describing things very differently. If it were ever made into a movie I have this idea that you could focus on really close-up shots of head and hands and feet to show what's going on from the blind character's point of view.

must ask if the plot twist has anything to do with Priamus??

fraid not, but he does come back at the end of The Empty Kingdom.

From:

j-cheney.livejournal.com

Aha---I like Priamus. It'll be good to have him back. ;o)

From:

ewein2412

I was deeply in love with him, myself, when I wrote Coalition. He is one of the very few of my characters that I have dreamed about.

From:

mhari.livejournal.com

I have probably made my readers die of boredom

What is this crazy talk?!

Now I am devoured by curiosity.

From:

ewein2412

haven't you read "Fire," woman?

From:

mhari.livejournal.com

No! *sadface* I only have "No Human Hands". I shall have to work harder for my badge.

Man, I would love it if all these shorts could be collected in one book. (I cannot figure out how to say that without sounding like Entitlement Fan. Erk.)

From:

ewein2412

there are only two stories, it would hardly make a book! (or maybe I should just write some more) (maybe *I* will have to work harder for my badge...)

like I said to

marguerlucy. You can get cheap used copies of "Fire" here. Make sure the edition is Vol. 9 (or IX), published in 1993.

From:

mhari.livejournal.com

Oh! Somehow I got the impression there were a whole handful. Wishful thinking, maybe.

a-ha. Off I go, then!

From:

ewein2412

there are more in my demented brain. someday.

From: (Anonymous)

I am giddy with anticipation. I keep vaguely hoping Barnes and Nobles will call me before next Thursday to tell me that it's in, and do I want to come get my book now? (They also assured me that the release date is the 14th).

At some point in some various move, I seem to have misplaced my book with "Fire". I was looking for it the other night. I am hoping it was left in Pennsylvania, or else is just in some random spot on my random bookshelves.

Is Priamos coming back? I liked Priamos.

When my dog was a puppy he once brought in a baby mole which he had found somewhere. It was dead by the time it got in the house. I screamed like a girl in a horror movie and hit notes that made the lightbulbs vibrate.

--Tori

From:

marguerlucy.livejournal.com

I second the Priamos request. And I preordered my copy on Amazon tonight, yay!

From:

ewein2412

I haven't got a whole Priamos plot to give you, sorry guys! He comes back, though. and I promise a kiss.

From: (Anonymous)

That's all I would ask for from Priamos, anyway.

--Tori

From:

tigertrapped.livejournal.com

Throughout every novel I’ve written, it turns out that it’s actually structure that governs the plot. And here’s me all along thinking it was character.

Wow, I can imagine that must have come as a surprise. But now you can loftily tell people that you're a structuralist, which sounds very high brow. *g*

From:

ewein2412

hah. Or a neo-structuralist, that sounds even better.

From:

tigertrapped.livejournal.com

Or a post-structuralist. Whatever that might be. *g*

From:

ewein2412

you asked for it... a post-neo-structuralist

actually, I think those prefixes cancel each other out.

I still consider myself one of

ellen_kushner's "Young Trollopes"--our byline is "Plot is character, character is plot."

you're kind of like that, too.

From:

tigertrapped.livejournal.com

I hope so. Because plot qua plot scares the pants off me.

From:

ewein2412

your characters are most definitely plot!

From:

tigertrapped.livejournal.com

Thank you. *g*

From: (Anonymous)

In Ancient Greek, when you kept adding negatives to a sentance you were emphasizing the negative, rather than cancelling it. "I won't never go..." would be more like "I would never ever in a million years go" than "I will go". So maybe the prefixes don't cancel each other out. (Latin could be the same way, but I have spent ten years caring less about Latin than Greek and as a result, I have forgotten rather a lot of its rules.)

--Tori

From:

coffeeandink.livejournal.com

Eee! I'm very excited, both about The Lion Hunters and the "Fire" follow-up.

From:

ewein2412

don't hold your breath over the "Fire" follow-up.... I still haven't finished writing it.

let me just say... think of M's son & brother as foils.

From:

ewein2412

Elizabeth E. Wein, The Empty Kingdom, excerpted from Chapters 7 & 8. Copyright Elizabeth Gatland 2008.

White skinned, white haired, Medraut seemed impossibly alien in the najashi’s chambers, and Telemakos realized suddenly that his father was dressed as a British native. Medraut’s kilt and tunic were of some dark, soft animal skin, and his boots were of the same stuff, supple and shining; over his shoulders hung a swathe of fine wool, like a shamma but wrapped differently, woven in a chessboard pattern of blocks of green and blue and brown and gray. The cloak was pinned with a gold brooch in the shape of a snarling dragon. There was a knot of gold in his earlobe, and his pale hair was swept back into a single plait.

He looks like a king, Telemakos thought. If he were wearing a crown you would mistake him for the high king of Britain. He is more regal than the najashi himself.

Medraut lifted his hand toward Telemakos in mute command. Telemakos suppressed the babyish urge to burst into tears and dive sobbing into his father’s arms; he understood that Medraut wanted Telemakos to acknowledge him with a formal greeting. Telemakos knelt before his father. He laid down the rolled maps that he carried, took the offered hand, and kissed it courteously. At Telemakos’s side, again like his conspirator, Muna also knelt. Telemakos held fast to his father’s hand.

“Look, Boy, that is the Ras,” said Athena helpfully. “The prince.”

“Ras Meder,” Telemakos agreed.

“That is our mother the prince.”

The Star Master spluttered with laughter. His fingers were still webbed in the string stars, waiting for Medraut to take his next turn at them.
Telemakos bit his lip. “You mean father, little Tena. He is our father.”

Athena wriggled out of the najashi’s lap and shuffled across the carpet to sit between Telemakos and the queen. “The Ras has got a snake in his hand.”

Medraut, still smiling his faint smile, tolerantly turned over the stiff fingers of his left hand to reveal the tattooed serpent hidden in his palm.

“I know, Tena,” Telemakos said. “I have seen it before. My lord—Sir—” The word came out as a ridiculous squeak. Telemakos choked, and swallowed. “Peace to you, Ras Meder, and welcome to San’a.”

“Indeed,” Medraut said dryly, and raised his chin with the slightest jerk, as if in defiance.

There was a fine chain wrapped twice about his throat. Telemakos had at first thought it to be a fastening of his cloak. It was of iron, not ornamental; its tails were thrown back over Medraut’s shoulders. Telemakos saw now that each of the kneeling attendants held an end of the chain. If they pulled on it they would choke Medraut.

Still clasping his father’s hand, Telemakos turned to Abreha, lips parted in disbelief. Medraut, also, glanced at the najashi. Fixed by the twin bores of their cold, steel stares, Abreha lowered his eyes.

“My Morningstar,” the najashi said quietly, “There are things your father must not tell you. You cannot know how deeply it shames me to have to hold him in such durance. But we cannot come to an agreement about what you should and should not know, and the days fly past without you seeing each other. I swear you do not need one more scrap of dangerous knowledge in your head.”

Medraut withdrew his hand. Telemakos sat back on his heels before his father, glaring murderously at the najashi. “Do you treat all your ambassadors like this?”

Athena crept closer to Telemakos. She recognized a battle when she saw one, and she wanted to be sure Telemakos’s anger was not directed at her. She climbed up to lean against Telemakos with one hand in his hair and the other twisting the neck of his shirt.

“I will not have your father as my ambassador,” Abreha answered evenly.